Will of George Clark (1756-1810) of Binfield

My 4x great grandfather George Clark(e) (1756-1810) of Binfield (Berkshire) was the first of 6 children of William Clarke (1730-1797) and Elizabeth Draycott. https://birdsofcressingham.wordpress.com/2020/09/04/william-clarke-1730-1810-and-elizabeth-draycott/

George Clark’s will reveals some interesting information:

  • his wife Hannah was indeed Hannah Norman.
  • John (my 3x great grandfather) was born before George and Hannah’s marriage, though George was John’s father.
  • George bequeathed to Hannah (for her lifetime) and then to their son John a freehold estate at Hazle wood (Binfield)
  • George also bequeathed £50 to his and Hannah’s daughter Elizabeth. The will names no other children (and I have found no others).
  • George may well have been on his deathbed when he made his will: he was buried 3 days later.
  • the parish burial register gives George’s age (in 1810) as 54, providing evidence that he was the boy baptised in Binfield on 4 December 1756, 2 months after his parents married there.

I have transcribed the whole will in the appendix to this post.

I discuss below:

  • George Clark and Hannah Norman
  • Hannah Clark (George’s sister)
  • Elizabeth Clark (George and Hannah’s daughter, or perhaps illegitimate daughter of Hannah)
  • Which William Clark?
  • Hazlewood

George Clark and Hannah Norman

George Clark married Hannah Norman in Binfield on 24 May 1785. Both were single and residing in Binfield. George signed with his name, as did the witnesses (Catherine Clark and James Clark— George had siblings with those names), but Hannah Norman signed with a mark.

George Clark and Hannah Norman’s son John was baptised in on 24 May 1785 (the day of his parent’s wedding).

George made his will on 13 July 1810 and was buried 3 days later, aged 54.

Hannah Clark

The (rare) 1801 census shows Hannah Clarke (Inmate) in Binfield with George Jackman (widower) and Ann (Inmate, ‘her baseborn daughter by Jackman’). https://birdsofcressingham.wordpress.com/2020/09/08/binfield-1801-census/

Hannah was George Clark’s sister, baptised in Binfield on 5 May, 1776 (though the baptism index I have seen says her parents were William Clark and Ezekial—not Elizabeth).

Perhaps she was the same Hannah Clark who:

  • was in Woodhouse Street, Binfield in 1841 (age 65) with daughter Eliza (20).
  • was in Red Rose, Binfield in 1851 as a widow (70) with Eliza Loader (32), Eliza’s husband James Loader (a farm labourer) and 3 children. Eliza may be Eliza Clarke, baptised in Binfield in 11 August 1816, daughter of Hannah Clarke, a poor-house servant.
  • died on 29 September 1856 (aged 80) in Binfield of bronchitis, informant Jane Morris (present at the death).

Elizabeth Clark

Elizabeth, daughter of George and Hannah Clarke was baptised in Binfield on 30 December 1792. She is presumably the same Elizabeth Clarke who was:

  • recorded (aged 8) on the 1801 census in Binfield with George Clarke, Hannah Norman and John (16);
  • the mother of a William Clark, baptised in Binfield on 13 September 1812;
  • buried in Binfield on 23 November 1812, age 21.

It is not entirely clear who Elizabeth’s parents were. Although the baptism register says her parents were George and Hannah Clark and George’s will refers to a daughter Elizabeth, the 1801 census says ‘The baseborn daughter of George’s sister, Hannah, now living with Jackman’. If this note refers to Elizabeth (and not to some other daughter of Hannah) and is correct, Elizabeth was an illegitimate daughter of Hannah.

Which William Clark?

The illegitimate son of Elizabeth Clark was baptised on 13 September 1812. As I have discussed before, another William Clark was baptised in Binfield on 10 months earlier (17 November 1811). He was a son of my 3 x great grandparents John Clark and Elizabeth Clark [nee Blay].

One of the Williams married Dinah Price and lived until 1871. The other married Charlotte Hall and died in 1851. I haven’t yet worked out which William was which. https://birdsofcressingham.wordpress.com/2021/02/03/which-william-clark-was-which/

Hazlewood

A Land Tax Redemption book of 1798 shows George Clark as occupying a property owned by William Clark in Binfield. William Clark (68) was buried in Binfield on 17 January 1799.

‘An example is George Clark who moved from rented property to a tenement he inherited from his father in 1797.’  Margaret Escott, Residential Mobility in a late Eighteenth century parish: Binfield Berkshire 1779-1801, local Population Studies 40.

The house bequeathed by George Clark to his widow for her life and then to their son John was at ‘Hazle wood’. A tithe apportionment schedule and map prepared as at 22 November 1837 shows Hannah Clark as owning—and John Clark as occupying—3 plots (plots 54, 55 and 56, comprising garden & cottage and meadow & allotment). These plots lay on the eastern boundary of Binfield parish next to Warfield, in the area known as Jealot’s Hill, immediately north of Hazlewood.

The 1841 census shows Hannah, John, John’s wife Elizabeth Blay and 7 of John and Elizabeth’s children at Hazlewood Green. Hannah died later in 1841 and John was transported to Tasmania in 1842. Transported to Tasmania – Birds of Cressingham

In 1851, Elizabeth, 3 sons and a granddaughter were at Jealot’s Hill, next door but one to households listed as being in Hazel Wood. Elizabeth died in 1855.

I don’t know what happened to the land and dwelling in Hazlewood after Hannah’s death.

Conclusions

I know that:

  • Although John Clark (my 3x great grandfather) was born before George Clark’s marriage to Hannah Norman (and was baptised on the same day as their marriage), John’s father was George.
    In one respect, history was repeating itself: George himself had been born only 2 months after his own parents’ wedding.
  • George Clark (and probably his father William Clark before him) was wealthy enough to own a freehold cottage at Hazlewood (Binfield), with garden, meadow and allotments. He bequeathed this to his widow Hannah for her life, and to their son John after that.
  • George and Hannah had one other child (Elizabeth) baptised, though Elizabeth might perhaps have been an illegitimate daughter of George’s sister Hannah.
  • George’s sister Catherine and brother James were witnesses at George’s wedding. All 3 were literate but Hannah Norman was not.  

I still don’t know:

  • whether Elizabeth Clark (1792-1821) was indeed a daughter of George Clark and Hannah Norman, rather than of George’s sister Hannah.
  • whether George’s sister Hannah was indeed the same Hannah Clark who was apparently the mother of Eliza Loader (née Clark). Also, whether the mother of George’s sister Hannah was indeed called Ezekiel, rather than Elizabeth.
  • which William Clark married Charlotte Hall and which one married Dinah Price.
  • what happened to the cottage and land at Hazlewood after the deaths of Hannah Norman (1841) and John Clark’s transportation to Tasmania (1842).
  • whether the place where Elizabeth Blay (John Clark’s wife) was living with 3 sons and a granddaughter in 1851 was Hazlewood or some other nearby place. Elizabeth died in 1855.
  • what happened to George’s siblings Caroline and James after they witnessed his wedding, and what happened to some of George’s other siblings after their baptisms.
  • whether George’s father William left a will.

Appendix: Transcript of the will

Here is my transcript of the will. For a will of that period, it is unusually easy to read. George signed with a mark, so may have been illiterate, though he did sign the marriage register in 1785. Perhaps he was too weak to sign the will days before he died.

I George Clarke of the Parish of Binfield in the county of Berks, being of sound mind, memory, and understanding, though weak in body, do make and ordain this my last will and testament in manner and form following. First I give and bequeath unto my wife Hannah Clark all that me Freehold Estate wherein I now dwell, situate at Hazle wood in the parish of Binfield, for and during the term of her natural life and after her decease I give the said estate unto my natural son John Clark, by my wife Hannah Clark, formerly Hannah Noman, (he being son of the said Hannah Norman before wedlock) to him and his heirs for ever; the said John Clark paying out of the said estate unto my Daughter Elizabeth Clark the sum of fifty pounds, within one year  next after the decease of my wife. Also I give and bequeath unto my said wife, after the payment of all my said Debts, Funerary and Testamentary expenses all my Goods and Chattels, of every kind whatsoever and wheresoever being to her own use and disposal. I appoint my said wife Hannah Clark sole Executrix of this my last will; hereby revoking all wills heretofore made by me, and declare this to be my last will, dated this thirteenth day of July, in the year of our Lord One Thousand, Eight Hundred and Ten, and to which I have set my Hand and Seal- the words “Son John Clark” being interlined in the eleventh line

Signed, Sealed, Published and declared by the Testator George Clark as his last will, and testament in the presence of us who at his request, in his presence and in the presence of each other have subscribed our names as witnesses thereto
Abm Boult   William Beal    Susanner Beal     The mark of George Clark  

At Reading on the 6.th Aug 1811 Hannah Clark Wo. of the deced the sole Extrix within named was duly sworn that the Goods Chattels Credits [?] of the said deceed do not amount in Value to the sum of Twenty Pounds before the Chancr.

The will was proved (ie probate was granted) at Reading on 6 August 1811

Obituary of my paternal Grandfather Charles James Clark (1895-1962)

The following obituary appeared in the Harrow Observer and Gazette

Resident constructional engineer for the Abadan oil refinery and for the new Taylors-lane and the Croydon B power stations, Mr Charles James Clark of 69a, St John’s-road, Wembley, died on January 24 [1962] at the age of 67.

Mr Clark, who was born in Kensal Green, lived in Sudbury and Wembley for over 35 years. Before the war, he was associated with the late Sir Arthur Elvin in the opening of the Speedway Riders’ Benevolent Fund.

Cremation was at Hendon on January 30, the Rev G. G. James, curate at All Saint’s Queensbury, conducting the service.

Mourners present included: Mrs A Clark, wife [my grandmother, Annie Kirk (1891-1973); Mr NV Clark, son [my father]; Mrs S Clark, daughter-in-law [Stella Wilkinson, widow of Charles James Clark (1920-1961), Mr A Clark [Arthur Clark (1906-1969)], Mr W Clark [William Charles Clark (1891-1982)], brothers, Mrs Yates [unknown].

Comments

Oil refinery and power stations

Abadan Oil Refinery (in Iran) began refining oil in 1912, for the Anglo-Persian Oil Company. It was the first refinery in the Middle East to process significant commercial volumes of oil. The British state acquired a controlling 51% stake in the company in 1914. The refinery was nationalised by Iran in 1951. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abadan_Refinery and
https://www.history144.com/articles/the-abadan-oil-refinery-1913-to-1920/

Taylor’s lane power station was in Willesden (northwest London). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylors_Lane_Power_Station and https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Taylors_Lane_Power_Station

Construction of Croydon B power station began soon after World War 2 and it opened in 1950. It was decommissioned in 1984 and demolished in 1991, being replaced by an IKEA store. The 2 chimneys remain as a local landmark, marked with IKEA’s corporate colours (blue and yellow). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croydon_power_stations

Sir Arthur Elvin

While working in a cigarette kiosk at the British Empire Exhibition in Wembley from 1924, Arthur Elvin (1899–1957) accumulated enough money to buy Wembley Stadium in 1927, saving it from closure and demolition. He soon introduced greyhound racing and speedway racing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Elvin

When speedway returned to Wembley Stadium for 2 years in the early 1970s, I went there regularly with my great uncles William John Bird (1906-2002) and ‘Joe’ (William Pickford, 1912-1993), William’s daughter Marion Lucy Bird (1945-2010) and a friend of Marion’s.

All Saints Queensbury

I don’t know why the service was conducted by someone from All Saints, Queensbury (the nearest church to where my parents lived), rather than a church closer to my grandparents’ home in Wembley.

Mourners

My father told me a few years ago that some men who he didn’t know turned up at his father’s funeral, and they seemed to be family. He didn’t seem to know his father’s brothers and sisters, and perhaps he didn’t even know his father had brothers and sisters. Presumably, there had been some family rift.

Spelling convention

The street names listed are Taylors-lane and St John’s-road, with a hyphen and using no initial capital letter on ‘lane’ and ‘road’. I’ve seen this spelling convention in other old newspaper articles, but hadn’t realised it was still in use as late as 1962.

More information

For more information on Charles James Clark (1895-1962), his parents (Charles James Clark [1869-1946] and Elizabeth Povey [1870-1947]) and his siblings, please see https://birdsofcressingham.wordpress.com/2022/01/15/charles-james-clark-and-elizabeth-povey-in-1921/

For more on my uncle Charles James Clark (1920-1961) and Stella Wilkinson, please see https://birdsofcressingham.wordpress.com/2021/06/02/my-cousin-bobby/

Gladstone Guest, Rotherham United footballer

Gladstone Guest (1917-1998) was a professional footballer who played for Rotherham United between 1946 and 1956. He scored 130 league goals (still a record for the club) in 358 league appearances and 133 goals altogether (2nd place, in 375 appearances). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Rotherham_United_F.C._players

Gladstone’s early life

Gladstone was born on 26 June 1917 to Isaac and Ruth Guest, and baptised at All Saints Rotherham (now Rotherham Minster) on 11 July 1917. His father Isaac was a miner and the family were living at 50 Warden Street, Rotherham.

Isaac Guest had married Ruth Greenwood in the Rotherham area in 1913. They had 5 children, and Ruth also had 4 children from her first marriage.

50 Warden Street was still home to Isaac and Ruth:

  • in 1921, with Gladstone and other children Winifred (8) and Cyril (3), as well as Ruth’s children Gladys Tye (17), Ernest Tye (15) and William Tye (13) with her 1st husband Ernest Tye.
    Ernest Tye had died in the 3rd quarter of 1910. Winifred’s birth was registered in the name Winifred G Tye in the 4th quarter of 1912 and her marriage certificate (1933, in the name of Winifred Tye Guest) names Isaac as her father.
  • in 1939, with son Eric (14, page boy) and another person (listed above Eric) whose entry is still redacted out.

Isaac was a steel worker in 2021 and a steel rod examiner in 1939.

Gladstone’s:

Thanks to Valerie Ayris for telling me about Gladstone, who I had never heard of. She also supplied this picture of him.
Valerie is Gladstone’s 2nd cousin twice removed, and my 4th cousin once removed.

Marriage

Gladstone married Kathleen Annie Kime in the Rotherham area on 12 July 1947 at Rotherham Parish Church. He was still living at 50 Warden Street (Canklow) and she was at 45 Warden Street, where the Kime family had been living when she was baptised in 1921. The witnesses were Cyril Guest (presumably Gladstone’s brother) and Enid Meadows.

Gladstone and Kathleen apparently had no children.

Football career

Much of the information I have found about Gladstone was in his obituary (published in the Yorkshire Post on 21 July 1998), and in press reports in the Star Green ’Un (a Sheffield sports paper) and the Retford, Worksop, Isle of Axholme and Gainsborough News. There are also reports about some of his matches for Denaby United at https://conisbroughanddenabyhistory.org.uk/?s=gladstone+guest

Gladstone’s played initially for Worksop Town (needing a 3-hour bus trip from his home in Rotherham). He was highly rated: the manager of First Division Portsmouth arrived in 1938 in an attempt to sign him in, but arrived a couple of hours after Gladstone signed as a professional for Rotherham United in 1938 (aged 21). Because of World War 2, he didn’t make his debut until 1946, when he was 29.

Rotherham United was formed in 1925 by the merger of Rotherham County and Rotherham Town. The team is nicked the Millers, presumably because they played at Millmoor from 1907 to 2008. The club’s website is https://www.themillers.co.uk/

War record

Gladstone served with the Highland Division in North Africa, the Middle East and Crete, and landed in France the day after D-DAY.

While serving, he played for Rotherham Welfare. He also watched a Watford match and played several games for them after answering an appeal to the crowd for any professionals who happened to be watching.

Back to Rotherham United

Gladstone was an inside forward. A report on the first post-war league match between Rotherham and Sheffield Wednesday described Guest as a ‘master tactician who deployed his forces with a skill that repeatedly prised the Wednesday defence wide apart’.

A 1951 report in the Daily Mirror says that Gladstone was one of 3 part-time Rotherham United players employed at the local steel works, with another 7 full -time professionals having previously worked in local pits.

In 1950, Manchester United, Sheffield United and Huddersfield Town all offered large fees, but Rotherham refused to release him. Instead, the club made him captain.

In 1953, Rotherham United stopped Newcastle United Newcastle from winning the FA Cup for the 3rd time by beating Newcastle 3-1 in the 4th round. Gladstone delivered an assist for the 3rd goal.

As captain, he led Rotherham United to victory in the Third Division North in 1951 (squad picture with the trophy at https://www.themillers.co.uk/news/2025/july/01/1950-51-title-winners/). He then led them to their highest ever league position in 1954-55, being denied promotion to Division One (today’s Premier League) only by goal average—after missing a penalty in the last match.

After professional football

Gladstone finished his playing career with Rotherham United in 1956, continuing as groundsman until his retirement in 1962. He also played high-standard amateur football for many years, for Gainsborough Trinity FC and then for Denaby United (near Doncaster). Some press reports of matches for Denaby are archived at https://conisbroughanddenabyhistory.org.uk/?s=gladstone+guest

He returned to Gainsborough as player-manager between 1961 and 1963. Gladstone managed Gainsborough Trinity from 1961-3. Well known managers of the club in later years included Neil Warnock (1980-1), Leighton James (1993-4) and Brian Little (2009-2011).

He was also a scout for Sheffield United in 1972 (and presumably in other years as well).

Other sports

Gladstone played cricket regularly in the summers. In 1963, he topped the batting averages for Jenkins Sports of Rotherham in the Doncaster Senior League, scoring 460 runs in 10 innings (4 not out), with a top score of 120 not out.

In 1964, Gladstone was picked to play in a benefit match against a Yorkshire all stars team that included current and future Yorkshire captains Brian Close and Ray Illingworth, fast bowler Fred Trueman and Leeds United football manager Don Revie. He was also picked for a Doncaster Cricket League X1 in their annual match with a Yorkshire Council X1.

In 1982, a newspaper reported him as having a black eye (at the age of 65), caused by a cricket ball deflecting off a top edge.

Gladstone also won Army boxing and snooker titles.

Death

Gladstone died on 17 July 1998.

Families of Little Cressingham (1): my ancestors

I’ve previously summarised 1841 census information for each household in Little Cressingham (Norfolk). (that census also covers Threxton).

That summary was set out in the same order as the census schedules. I’m now further summarising that census information by family. I’ll start by summarising the families related to my ancestors. In future posts, I’ll summarise the other families.

The census recorded 244 people in total, listed on 5 pages and grouped in 60 households. I’ve given each household a reference number from H1 to H60.

My ancestral families covered in this post are Bird and Newton. The post covers 8 of the 60 households.

Bird

My 4 x great grandmother Mary Bird (née Pooley, 1761-1842) was in H41 with her granddaughter Sally Crow.

Mary Bird’s son Adam Bird and his 2nd wife Charlotte Newton (my 3 x great grandparents) were in household H5, with 2 young daughters . https://birdsofcressingham.wordpress.com/2020/11/16/adam-bird-and-charlotte-newton
The parents of Adam Bird’s first wife (Hannah Carter) were Christopher and Mary Carter (H26).

Adam’s widowed sister Sarah Crow (née Bird, 1789-1866) was in H53 with children Mathew, John and Catherine. Sarah’s:

  • son John Crow later married Mary Markwell (H10, daughter of the family in H47.
  • Catharine Crow went on to marry widower John Pratt (a thatcher of Great Cressingham, and cousin of Jeremiah Pratt of H24).
  • son William Crow was in H38;
  • daughter Sally was with her grandmother Mary Bird (née Pooley) in H41; and
  • married daughter Marianne was in H54 (with Marianne’s husband Joseph Buckle and their 2 children). Marianne’s daughter Rachel Buckle and son James Buckle went on to marry their 1st cousins James Crow and Martha Crow, children of Marianne’s brother Matthew. https://birdsofcressingham.wordpress.com/2026/04/18/double-cousin-marriage-among-cressingham-crowes/

Sarah Crow went on to marry Robert Chapman of H3 in 1852. I don’t know whether Robert was related to Mary Pooley’s mother Anne Chapman, or to the other Chapmans in Little Cressingham in 1841.

Newton

Robert Newton and his wife Hannah Bullard were in H19, with son Robert and agricultural labourers Samuel Adcock and William Howard. Robert’s nieces and nephews included:

  • my 3 x great grandmother Charlotte Bird (née Newton, H5), daughter of Thomas Newton (1789-1849, of Great Cressingham).
  • John Bilverstone (H22) and Martha Thilthorpe or Thimblethorpe (née Bilverstone, H8), both children of Jemima Newton (1770-1862) and Robert Bilverstone.

I don’t know whether Charlotte Newton’s mother Mary Newton (née Bensley), from West Bradenham, was related to Isaac Bensley of H25.

Robert Newton and Hannah Bullard’s son Robert Newton went on to marry Lucy Bailey of H49 and they emigrated to Australia.

It isn’t clear who Samuel Adcock or William Howard were.

More about Thomas Shillito’s will

I have written before about the will of Thomas Shillito, an innkeeper of Scrooby (Nottinghamshire). https://birdsofcressingham.wordpress.com/2021/08/20/thomas-shillitto-inkeeper-of-scrooby/

I based that earlier post on an Inland Revenue summary of the will for estate duty purposes. I have now seen the will itself and this fills some gaps in my knowledge. Most importantly, the will states that 2 of the beneficiaries (Elizabeth White Shillito and Mary Ann Shillito) were daughters of Thomas’s son Samuel Shillito.

The will also states that:

  • Samuel was deceased.
  • Elizabeth and Mary Ann were Thomas’s two grandchildren, implying that they were Thomas’s only (or only surviving) grandchildren.  

This extra information makes it clear that Samuel, Elizabeth and Mary Ann were the family I discussed in my earlier post.

Timeline for Samuel Shillito

I can now confirm the following timeline for this Samuel Shillito:

  • baptised on 23 February 1771 in Harworth (3 miles west of Scrooby), son of Thomas and Elizabeth Shillito.
  • married Elizabeth White by licence on 29 December 1792 at St Mary Lambeth (south London), when Elizabeth was residing in that parish and Samuel was in St Gabriel, Fenchurch (central London).
    The witnesses were Robert Dinsdale, Mary Reynolds, and Letitia Reynolds. They signed with their names, and so did the bride and groom.
    (The parish church of St Gabriel burned down during the Great Fire of London and was never rebuilt.)
  • baptisms at St James, Clerkenwell, Middlesex (central London) of daughters Elizabeth White Shillito (1795) and Mary Ann Shilllito (1797).
  • died before 31 July 1807, when Thomas Shillito made his will. This fact proves that this Samuel was not the Samuel Shillito who emigrated briefly to South Africa in the early 1820s with his wife Isabella Winks and their children. https://birdsofcressingham.wordpress.com/2021/08/13/unsuccessful-attempt-to-settle-in-south-africa/

I haven’t found Samuel, his wife Eizabeth or their daughter Mary Ann after 1797.

Elizabeth White Shillito

Elizabeth White Shillito seems not to have married. She appears on the census:

  • in 1851 in Clapham Common (south London) as a servant and companion to widow Sarah Fauntleroy, a 78-year-old annuitant living with Sarah’s adult children  
  • in 1871 at 36 Park Road, Clapham as lodger (occupation: ‘independent’) with John Beeching (a baker from Charing, Kent), his wife Jane and their daughter Elizabeth.

I haven’t found Elizabeth in the census for 1841, 1861 and 1881. She died on 17 January 1882, aged 88 and was buried at West Norwood cemetery (south London).

Other useful information in Thomas’s will

Thomas Shillito’s will gave me some other information:

  • the bequest to granddaughters Elizabeth and Mary Ann was £25 each, not 25% each of the residue, as I had originally understood.
  • Thomas bequeathed the residue (after bequests of £100 each to sons George and William, £150 to son Richard and £25 each to the granddaughters) to his widow Elizabeth for her lifetime, and then to their son George.
  • Thomas bequeathed to George a house Thomas had built in Ranskill (2 miles south of Scrooby).
  • the estate included 5 other houses built by Thomas and occupied by tenants George Mallender, William Skelton, George Steemson, William Nettleship and William Steemson.

Who was Thomas Shillito?

Thomas Shillito and Elizabeth Clawson married in Harworth in 1763 and had 4 children (Thomas, George, Samuel [1768-1770] and another Samuel) there between 1763 and 1771. They then had 2 children (John and Richard) in Torworth (half a mile from Ranskill) between 1773 and 1775 and 2 more (Septimus and William) in Ranskill between 1778 and 1781.

All 8 children were boys. Conveniently, Septimus’s name confirms that he was indeed the 7th child.

Thomas’s will doesn’t mention his sons Thomas, John or Septimus, so presumably they had died by 1807.

I haven’t found Thomas’s sons Richard or William after their baptisms (except for the mention in the will which suggests they were still alive in 1807).

Thomas’s son George and George’s children Thomas, Samuel and Mary were at Scrooby House in Scrooby in 1841. https://birdsofcressingham.wordpress.com/2023/10/04/three-boys-with-the-same-name-died-within-5years/

Conclusion

It seems highly likely that the following 3 people were related to each other:

I don’t yet know:

Nicking birds

According to a report in The Kensington News for 2 September 1882, Charles Povey (a labourer of (Gloucester Laundry, Kilburn Lane) was sentenced to one month’s imprisonment for stealing 2 pigeons. The birds were the property of Thomas Ball of 15 P Street, Queens Park.  

From the location, dates and occupation, I suspect this might well be my 2 x great grandfather Charles Povey (1842-1901) or his son Charles Povey (1866-1950).

Charles senior was a laundryman and his wife Elizabeth Herbert was a laundress. The family were living in 1881 at 2 Little Church Place (Queen’s Park Church Place, near Kensal Town – Birds of Cressingham). Charles (junior) ‘works with bookbinder’.  

P street (now known as Peach Street A-Z New to Old Street names), Kilburn Lane and Little Church Place (now St John’s Terrace) are within a few minutes walk of each other.

By 1891, Elizabeth had died and Charles (senior) was in Chelsea Workhouse Infirmary.

I haven’t found Charles (junior) in 1891. He married Emily Harman in 1896, when he said he was a labourer, living in Kensal Road (at number 198). Kensal Road was where many of the Clarks and Poveys lived. Another Clark connection in Kensal Road – Birds of Cressingham

For more on:

Double cousin marriage among Cressingham Crowes

    Matthew Crowe’s son James Crowe married his cousin Rachel Buckle, daughter of Matthew’s sister Marianne Crowe. And Matthew’s daughter Martha Crowe married Marianne’s son James Buckle.

    The parents of Matthew Crowe (1818-1905) and Marianne Crowe (1814-1856) were William Crowe (1779-1837) and Sarah Bird (1789-1866). Sarah was a daughter of my 4 x great grandparents James Bird (1765-1826) and Mary Pooley (1761-1842). All these people lived in Little Cressingham (Norfolk).

    For more on:

    I discuss below:

    • places mentioned in this post
    • Marianne Crowe (1814-1856) and Joseph Buckle (1814-1898)
    • Matthew Crowe (1818-1905) and Mary Grey (1821-1881)
    • James Crowe (1846-1916) and Rachel Buckle (1841-1874)
    • James Buckle (1846-1930) and Martha Crowe (1850-1899)
    • DNA

    Some records spell the name as Crowe but others spell it as Crow. For simplicity, I have used Crowe throughout this post.

    Places mentioned in this post

    The parish surrounding Little Cressingham include Great Cressingham, Saham Toney, Threxton, Stanford and Hilborough. Beyond Saham Toney are Watton and then Carbrooke.  Thetford is about 10 miles south of Little Cressingham.

    Marianne Crowe (1814-1856) and Joseph Buckle (1814-1898)

    Marianne Crowe was baptised in Little Cressingham on 8 May 1814 (when her father William Crowe was a lime burner). She married Joseph Buckle there on 31 July 1836. The witnesses were Adam Bird (presumably her uncle, my 3 x great grandfather), [the mark of] Mary Crowe, and Christopher Carter.

    The couple and their children were in Little Cressingham in 1841 (in the household I have labelled H54, next door to Marianne’s parents William Crowe and Sarah Bird of H53) and 1851. Joseph was an agricultural labourer. People of Little Cressingham (5) – Birds of Cressingham

    Marianne and Joseph had 5 children:

    • John Buckle (1838-1907). Married Esther Moore (of Hilborough, 1839-1877) on 8 January 1859 in Hilborough. Coal merchant in Watton (1881 and 1891). With 2nd wife Emma Jane Walker (from Norwich, 1859-1941?) by 1891. Died 23 October 1907 residing in Watton. Probate to widow Emma Jane, effects £4077 3s 2d. 3 children with Esther and 1 with Emma Jane.
    • William Buckle (1840-1893). Married Martha Gamble (from Great Cressingham) in 1868. 5 children.
    • Rachel Buckle (1841-1874). See below.
    • Joseph Buckle (1844-1993). Married Elizabeth Cockerell on 22 May 1868 in Little Cressingham. Witnesses William Buckle and Mary Cokerill. 7 children. In Little Cressingham in 1871 and 1881, in Hilborough 1891 (a carter).
    • James Buckle (1846-1930). See below

    Joseph Buckle (1814-1898)

    Marianne Crowe’s husband Joseph Buckle (1814-1898) was baptised in Little Cressingham on 10 April 1814, son of John Buckle and Susannah. This couple may be John Buckle of Stanford and Susan Easter, who married in Threxton on 10 March 1800.

    Matthew Crowe (1818-1905) and Mary Grey (1821-1881)

    Matthew Crowe was baptised in Saham Toney on 23 March 1816. In 1841, Matthew was with his widowed mother Sarah in Little Cressingham.

    Matthew married Mary Grey (1821-1881) of Saham Toney in that parish on 18 October 1844.  Matthew lived the rest of his life in Little Cressingham, though the 1861 census seems to show the couple in the neighbouring parish of Threxton.

    Matthew and Mary had 7 children:

    • James Crowe (1846-1916), see below
    • Sarah Ann Crowe (1848-1910). It seems she never married and had one illegitimate son: William Brown John Crowe (1869-1951). Perhaps his father was called John Brown.
    • Matthew Crowe (1850-1852).
    • Martha Crowe (1850-1899). See below  
    • Mary Ann Crowe (1854-1935). Married her 1st cousin Alfred Wyer (from Carbrooke, son of Mary Ann’s maternal aunt;  Eliza Grey) Moved to Watton, then Thetford. Alfred was an agricultural labourer, corn merchant’s carter (1901) and a farmer (1911, 1921). 3 sons, including one who died on service in the First World War.
    • Ellen Crowe (1863-1948). Married James Burtenshaw (a domestic gardener from Pulborough, Sussex) in Kingston (Surrey) in 1879 and lived in Richmond (Surrey). 7 Children.
    • John Crowe (1863-1948). Married Martha Chuter (from Batt’s Corner, Frensham, Surrey) in Kingston (Surrey) in 1887. Gardener and domestic worker (1891, 1901), jobbing gardener (1911, 1939), gardener (1921). 4 children.

    James Crowe (1846-1916) and Rachel Buckle (1841-1874)

    As noted above, James Crowe was a son of Matthew Crowe and Mary Grey, and his 1st cousin Rachel Buckle was a daughter of Joseph Buckle and Marianne Crowe.

    James and Rachel married in Little Cressingham on 29 October 1868. James was a labourer, and so were the couple’s fathers. The witnesses were William Chapman and Martha Ann Moore (who signed with their names). The bride and groom signed with a mark.

    They appeared in Little Cressingham on the 1871 census with infant sons Herbert Crowe (1) and Albert Crowe (2 months). Rachel died on 4 May 1874 in Little Cressingham and was buried there on 8 May.

    James married his 1st cousin Amelia Wyer in 1880 and had 3 children with her. Amelia was a daughter of James’s maternal aunt Eliza Grey and sister of Mary Ann Crowe’s husband Alfred.

    James Buckle (1846-1930) and Martha Crowe (1850-1899)

    As noted above, James Buckle was a son of Joseph Buckle and Marianne Crowe, and his 1st cousin Martha Crowe was a daughter of Matthew Crowe and Mary Grey.

    James and Martha married in Little Cressingham on 12 November 1871. They had 5 children:

    • Ernest Buckle (1874-1960)
    • Bertie Buckle (1879-1917)
    • Beatrice Mary Buckel (1881-1971)
    • John Buckle (1885-1965)

    Martha died in 1899 and in 1902 James married his sister-in-law Mary Cockerell, sister of his brother James’s wife Elizabeth Cockerill. Mary and Elizabeth’s parents were Thomas Cockerill and Marha Carlton and their maternal grandparents were Charles Carlton and Elizabeth Main. Mary Cokerell’s 1st husband was Frederick Chapman and her 2nd husband was James Curston).

    DNA

    I have small DNA matches (9 cM or 10 cM) with:

    • 2 sisters (person A and person B) who are great granddaughters of James Crowe and James’s 1st cousin Rachel Buckle (through their son Albert Crowe); and
    • a 2x great grandson of James Crowe and Rachel Buckle (also through their son Albert Crowe) (person C).

    Person C shares DNA matches of:

    • 206 cM with person A and 161 cM with person B.
    • 22 cM with a 4 x great grandchild of James Bird and Mary Pooley, via their son Henry Bird (1801-1856) and Henry’s daughter Elizabeth Bird (1835-1903). I share a match of 9 cM with this person, whose ancestor emigrated to the US.

    It is conventional to measure the length of segments of DNA in centiMorgans (cM). If a matching segment is more than 10cM-20cM, it is quite likely to be inherited from a common ancestor only a few generations back.

    Other shared DNA matches

    I also share DNA matches of between 18cM and 10cM with:

    • 3 other people who share DNA matches of between 39 cM and 23 cM with persons A and B (but not person C), and a 4th person who shares a match of 30 cM with person A (but not with persons B and C.
    • 3 other people who share matches of between 33 cM and 22 cM with Person C (but not with persons A and B).

    I haven’t yet worked out how any of those 7 people are connected to me.

    Illicit ironmongery?

    The following report appears in the Morning Chronicle for Monday, January 10 1823.

    MARY-LE-BONE OFFICE. – Friday evening, before John Rawlinson, Esq., an information was heard, filed at the instance of the Earl Manvers against Mr James Butters and Mr Benyn, two ironmongers residing in Wigmore-street, under an Act passed this session, called the Portman-square Act, which enacts that any individual selling keys for that square, without the permission of the Trustees, is liable to a penalty not exceeding 10l., and forfeiture of the key.

    The defendants, who disclaimed any intention of committing an illegal act (the Act of Parliament in question not being known to them), having undertaken not to sell such keys in future, Lord Manvers agree to withdraw the information.

    I have discussed before whether James Butters, an ironmonger of Wigmore Street, could be a relative (perhaps even father) of my 3 x great grandfather, James David Butters, a Zinc worker (c1815-1855):

    Thomas Butters (1790-1844)

    Thomas Butters (1790-1844) was a grocer and confectioner, initially near Leicester Square in central London. Thomas and his wife Elizabeth Hunt had 6 children, including an optician / plate glass manufacturer, a hospital matron, a tobacconist, a domestic cook and the wife of a tobacconist /pocket-book maker.

    Smallish DNA matches with a descendant of Thomas Butters suggest he could be a relative (perhaps uncle) of my 3 x great grandfather James David Butters (abt 1814-1855).

    Thomas Butters and Elizabeth Hunt

    Thomas Butters (1790-1844) married Elizabeth Hunt (1796-1858) on 14 November 1816 at St Andrew’s, Holborn (central London). The witnesses were John and Sarah Hunt (presumably her parents) and James Butters (perhaps his father, maybe widowed by then?)

    The Morning Post reported that Thomas was with the firm of Candler and Butters (Princes Street, Leicester Square) and Elizabeth was 2nd daughter of J Hunt Esq of Westminster.

    Candler and Butters, grocers of Princes Square, Leicester Square

    Candler and Butters was operating as early as 1813. On 13 October 1813, 35 penny pieces and 50 halfpence [totalling 5 Shillings] were stolen from Samuel Chandler [sic] and Thomas Butters, grocers, in Princes Street, Soho. The culprits (William Duffett, and Joseph Hearner, both 18) were sentenced to be transported for 7 years. https://www.dhi.ac.uk/san/ob/1810s/181310270067.gif

    The London Gazette of 21 June 1814 listed Candler and Butters, grocers, Princes Street St James as creditors of Thomas Smith, subscription and coffee-room keeper, late of the Carlton Rooms, Princes Street, Leicester Square, and formerly of the Kent and Essex Tavern, Whitechapel (Middlesex), now in his Majesty’s gaol of Newgate.

    According to the London Gazette of 26 June 1821, Samuel Candler and Thomas Butters determined and dissolved their copartnership as Grocers and Confectioners, No 44, Princes-Street, Saint James’s, Westminster, by mutual consent on Saturday 23 June 1821.

    1841-1844

    The 1841 census shows Thomas (50, a confectioner) and Elizabeth (45) with children John (16, tobacconist), Elizabeth (14) and Ann (7) in Tufton Yard, Tufton Street (St John the Evangelist, Westminster).

    Thomas Butters (53, confectioner) died at 3 am on 24 October 1844 at 52 Great Felton [?] Street. The cause was apoplexy, 1st attack, 18 hours. Informant: John Butters, present at the death, 59 Rochester Street [illegible words underneath] Thomas Butters (53), of 52 Marsham Street (St John, Westminster) was buried on 30 November 1844 at All Souls, Kensal Green (west London).

    After 1844

    Elizabeth might be a 51-year-old widowed nurse (born in London) who in 1851 was at 8 South Grove, Peckham (southeast London) in a household headed by Alexander Booke Mills (a Scotch and Manchester warehouseman).

    Elizabeth Butters [nee Hunt] of 54 Red Lion Street (Clerkenwell) died on 24 February 1858. (Her daughter Ann had been lodging at 54 Red Lion Street in 1851). Probate was granted to Thomas Ebenezer Hunt, son.

    Thomas Butters and Elizabeth Hunt’s children

    Thomas and Elizabeth’s children were:

    • Thomas Ebenezer Butters (1817-1909)
    • Sarah Elizabeth Butters (1820-1903)
    • John Butters (1825-1858)
    • Elizabeth Butters (1827-1896)
    • Emma Butters (1829-1920)
    • Ann Butters (1834-1881)

    Thomas Ebenezer Butters (1817-1909)

    In 1841, a Thomas Butters (20, manufacturer of plate glass) and Emma Butters (10) [presumably his sister] were in Basing Place, Lambeth (south London) with female servant Helen Artley (20).  

    Marriage to Ann Jones

    Thomas Ebenezer Butters married Ann Jones on 6 April 1844 at Christ Church, Southwark (central London). The groom was an optician of 52 York Road, son of Thomas Butter, confectioner. Ann (of 138, Fleet Street) was a daughter of George Jones (mason). Bride and groom were of full age and single and signed with their names, as did the witnesses (William Simmons, Elizabeth Simmons and Sarah Simmons).

    In 1851, Thomas (optician, parallel glass worker) and Ann (born in Shrewsbury, Shropshire) were at 4 Belvedere Crescent (Lambeth) with 3 children and with Thomas’s sister Sarah (no occupation listed, born St Anne Soho) and brother John (wholesale tobacconist’s warehouseman, Westminster St James).

    Thomas and Ann had 3 children: Eleanor (1847-1915); Caroline (1849-?); and Thomas Edwin (1851-1936).

    2nd marriage

    Ann Jones died in 1860 and was buried in Norwood Cemetery, Lambeth [south London]. In 1864, Thomas remarried, to Clara Evenett:

    • Ada Florence Butters was born on 14 February 1865 at 4 Belvedere Crescent, daughter of Thomas Ebenezer Butter (optician (master)) and Clara Butters (formerly Evennett), informant: Thomas E Butters, father, 4 Belvedere Crescent, Belvedere Road (Lambeth).
    • Clara Butters (34) of Belvedere Crescent, Belvedere Road (Lambeth) was buried at Norwood cemetery on 2 June 1866.

    Address and occupation

    Thomas lived at: 4 Belvedere Crescent (Lambeth) (1851, 1861, 1871), then in Putney (west London) at 16 Victoria Road (1881, 1891) and then 2 Redgrave Road (1901).

    His occupation was said to be optician (1851, 1871) or parallel glass worker (1881, 1891) but by 1901, he was ‘living on own means’. He was employing 2 men in 1871 and 1881. The family had a female servant in 1871, 1881 and 1891 (different women in each case).

    Thomas (still of 2 Redgrave Road, Putney) died on 1 April 1909 and probate was granted to Ada Florence Butters [daughter] and Henry Smyth Stacy, printer. His effects were £4,186 17 s 5 d.

    Sarah Elizabeth Butters (1820-1903)

    Sarah Elizabeth Butters (1820-1903) never married. She lived in the same household as her brother Thomas Ebenezer Butters (1817-1909) until her death. 

    Sarah Elizabeth Butters of Faskally [?], Redgrave Road, Putney (Surrey) died on 11 December 1903 and was buried on 17 December at Norwood cemetery. Probate was granted to Thomas Ebenezer Butters [her brother] and Ada Florence Butters [niece].

    John Butters (1825-1858)

    John (a tobacconist) was with his parents Thomas and Elizabeth in 1841. In 1851, he was a wholesale tobacconist’s warehouse man, living with his brother Thomas Ebenezer (and Thomas’s wife and children) and their sister Sarah.

    John, a tobacconist (late of 146 Leadenhall Street, city of London) died on 28 August 1858 at 7 Englefield Road, Kingsland, Middlesex. Probate was granted to his brother, Thomas Ebenezer Hunt (parallel glass worker, of 4 Belvedere Crescent, Belvedere Road, Lambeth). John was buried at Norwood cemetery on 3 September 1858, aged 33.

    Elizabeth Butters (1827-1896)

    In 1851, Elizabeth was visiting Rebekah Glenn (72, born in St Mark’s, Lincoln; proprietor of houses and annuitant) at 10 Tufton Street. Tufton Street was where Thomas and Elizabeth Butters and 3 of their children (including Elizabeth) had been in 1841, and Rebekah was also there in 1841.

    1861 Elizabeth (a tobacconist’s assistant) was with her married sister Ann (and Ann’s husband and child) and widowed sister Emma (a shop woman) at 117 Packington Street, Islington.

    After 1861, Elizabeth was a domestic servant (cook):

    • with Francis Gompertz (48, architect) and his wife at 36 Bessborough Street, Westminster (1871)
    • with Francis’s brother Richard J Gompertz at Marquis Villas, St Margarett’s Road, Isleworth (west London). Richard was a British subject born in France and living on income from dividends (1881) or ‘on his own means’ (1891).

    The death of an Elizabeth Butters (70) was registered in Wandsworth in 1896.

    Richard Gompertz died in 1900 and the 1901 census shows Marquis Villas occupied by Francis Gompertz and his wife (and their domestic servants).

    Emma Butters (1829-1920)

    Emma Butters married Bene Hood (1814-1855) at St John the Evangelist, Lambeth on 7 October 1847. His father Bene Hood (baker), her father Thomas Butters, grocer. Both single of full age and of [illegible] Street. All signed with names. Witnesses [illegible] and Elizabeth Hohne [?].

    In 1851, Bene Hood (a baker, born in Newington, Surrey) and Emma were in Walworth (south London) with 2 young sons (William and Walter).

    After Bene Hood’s death in 1855, the widowed Emma was:

    • in 1861, a shop woman with married sister Ann (and Ann’s husband and child) and widowed sister Emma at 117 Packington Street, Islington.
    • in 1871 matron at Royal Hospital for Deformities, 315 Oxford Street (central London). It looks as though this was one of the forerunners of the Royal National Orthopaedic Hospital, but I haven’t been able to confirm this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_National_Orthopaedic_Hospital  
    • in 1881 Matron of Borough Hospital, Western Road, Birmingham (Warwickshire). It seems this hospital was opened in 1852 as part of the Birmingham Union Workhouse, later becoming the Workhouse Infirmary, Dudley Road Hospital and then City Hospital. 
    • in 1891, lodging-house keeper with daughter Hannah Elizabeth Hood (assistant) at 5 Wellington Road, Deal (Kent).
    • in 1901, possibly Emma Hood, 73, born in NK [not known], London, occupation: ‘small means’, lodging at 162 Great College Street, St Pancras.  [Hannah Elizabeth Hood not found in 1901]
    • in 1911 at Eversleigh, Ravenscourt Park, Deal, letting apartments with Hannah (whose occupation was ‘upholstery-work’).

    The death of Emma Hood (age 91) was registered in 1920 in Eastry (Kent, the registration district which includes Deal).

    In 1921 Hannah Elizabeth Hood (69, apartment letting) was at 9 Ravenscroft Road (Deal) with visitors [her nieces] Lillian Louisa Hood (39, dress maker) and Ada Elizabeth Hood (38, upholsterer)

    Ann Butters (1834-1881)

    In 1851, Ann was lodging at 54 Red Lion Street with Leopold Amelang and family. (Ann’s mother Elizabeth was living at that address when she died in 1858).

    Ann married John (or Johann) Ludwig Frank (1826-1873) at All Saints, Lower Marsh, Leake Street, Lambeth (Surrey) on 26 October 1858. He was a pocket book maker of 146 Leadenhall Street, son of John Ludwig Frank, glazier. Her father: grocer. Her residence: Belvedere Crescent. Witnesses Thomas E Butters and Sarah Butters. All signed with names.

    In 1861, with husband (tobacconist, pocket book maker, born in Germany) and oldest child, and with her married sister Ann and widowed sister Emma (a shop woman) and unmarried sister Elizabeth (tobacconist’s assistant) at 117 Packington Street, Islington.

    In 1871 Ann and Johann Ludwig (fancy leather maker) were at 24 Tibberton Square (Islington) with 3 children. The widowed Ann (a bottler of chemicals) was still at 24 Tibberton Square in 1881 with the 3 children: Charles (a clerk), Louisa (artificial flower mounter) and Herbert (carpenter).

    The death of Ann Frank (47) was registered in Islington in 1881.

    Notes on identifying this family

    For the following reasons, I am confident that Thomas and Elizabeth Butters and Elizabeth discussed in this post are Thomas Butters (1790-1844) and Elizabeth Hunt (1796-1858), and that the 6 children are all theirs:

    • birth records for the couple’s 1st and 2nd children (Thomas Ebenzer Butters on 8 September 1817 in Carlisle Street, parish of St Ann Soho) and Sarah Elizabeth Butters on 22 March 1820 in Frith Street (also St Ann Soho) describe Elizabeth Butters as daughter of John and Sarah Hunt.
    • Thomas is consistently described as grocer and /or confectioner in the baptism records (1817, 1820) and marriage certificates of his children.
    • the grants of probate to Thomas Elizabeth Butters for his mother Elizabeth and brother John (both in 1858) describe him as Elizabeth’s son and John’s brother.
    • Thomas, Elizabeth and 3 of their children (Elizabeth, John, Ann) were all together in 1841.
    • In 1861, 3 of the children (married Ann, widowed Emma and single Elizabeth) were all together. And Sarah Elizabeth (who never married) was with her brother Thomas Ebenezer from at least 1851 for at least 50 years.

    DNA

    I have a small DNA match (1 segment of 16 centiMorgans) with a 3x great grandchild of Emma Butters (1929-1920) and Bene Hood. That 3x great grandchild also shares DNA matches:

    • of 32 cM (a segment of 21 cM and a segment of 11 cM) with a descendant of my 2x great grandparents William John Butters (1843-1906) and Emma Elizabeth Cummings (1862-1946).
    • of one segment of 23 cM with a descendant of my 3x great grandparents James David Butters (abt 1814 -1855) and Esther Ann Withers (abt 1815-1885), through their daughter Sarah Elizabeth Butters (1852-1923).
      I have discussed before whether this Sarah Elizabeth Butters could be related to Sarah Elizabeth Butters (1820-1903), daughter of Thomas Butters (1790-1844. https://birdsofcressingham.wordpress.com/2025/01/03/two-women-called-sarah-elizabeth-butters/

    It is conventional to measure the length of segments of DNA in centiMorgans (cM). If a matching segment is more than 10cM-20cM, it is quite likely to be inherited from a common ancestor only a few generations back.

    No other ancestors of the 3x great grandchild of Emma Butters (1829-1920) have any obvious links with my ancestors. So, I presume the shared DNA—shared by that person, by me and by the 2 descendants of my 3x great grandfather James David Butters—comes from some ancestor shared by Emma’s father (Thomas Butters,1790-1844) and by James David Butters.

    Who was Thomas Butters’s father and was he related to my ancestors?

    The DNA links above suggest that Thomas Butters (1790-1844) was related (maybe closely) to my 3x great grandfather James David Butters (abt 1814-1855).

    Thomas Butters

    Thomas Butters was born in 1787-1791 (according to the 1841 census) or 1790-91 (according to a bishop’s transcript of the death register). He may be a Thomas Butters who received a Baptist baptism on 14 December 1790, son of James Butters (died 1821) a brazier of St Mary Le Bone (Marylebone, central London) and his wife Mary, who were living in Marylebone Lane. James and Mary were perhaps James Butter and Mary Jones who were married at St James, Piccadilly on 29 April 1779. https://birdsofcressingham.wordpress.com/2021/08/24/will-of-james-butters-brazier-1821/

    Thomas Butters (1790-1844) had an elder brother James, born to James and Mary on 21 February 1785. Their births are recorded in the parish register of Christchurch Baptist church Southwark.

    Church Street Baptist meeting house
    The cover sheet for the birth register describes it as the register for the Church Street Baptist meeting house, founded in 1785, with the register kept by Mr Upton from the Church’s foundation in 1785 until his death in 1843. A note inside the register describes it as the Baptist Church meeting in Green Walk, in the parish of Christ Church Surrey, under the pastoral care of James Upton. https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=897228

    James Upton was for 48 years from 1786 (until his death in 1834) pastor of the Baptist church, Church Street (then called Green Walk), Blackfriars Road, London. https://www.baptists.net/history/2023/07/the-life-and-ministry-of-james-upton/

    James David Butters

    My 3 x great grandfather James David Butters was born around 1815 and died in 1855. Zinc worker who died young – Birds of Cressingham

    James may have been James David Butters, who was baptised on 10 October 1814 at St James Piccadilly (central London). The parents were James (chimney improver) and Ann Butters, living in Market Row. I discuss below the following people who might be James Butters (the chimney improver):

    • James Butters (baptised 1785), son of James and Mary Butters
    • James Butters (abt 1779-1838)
    • James Butters (1785-1837), who married Rebecca Hammersley in 1820
    • James Butters, who married Elizabeth Cordell in 1807
    • James Butters, who married Ann Thomas in 1797  

    James Butters (baptised 1785), son of James and Mary Butters

    James Butters was baptised in 1785 and was brother of the Thomas Butters (1790-1844) discussed in this post. The following facts make it plausible that he could have been James David Butters’s father:

    • his age: he would have been about 29 when James David Butters was baptised;
    • the DNA matches between (a) a descendant Thomas Butters (1790-1844) and (b) me, and 2 other descendants of James David Butters.
    • James David Butters’s middle name: James Butters (baptised 1785) and Thomas Butters (1790-1844) had a short-lived brother David (1787-89). Perhaps he is commemorated in the boy’s middle name. (Middle names were not yet very common in the early 19th century and David doesn’t seem to be a particularly common name.)

    The father of this James and Thomas was also James Butters, probably James Butters a brazier who died in 1821. It is just about possible that James Butters the brazier had a 2nd wife called Ann and that they together had a son in 1814 (James David Butters). If so, that would explain the DNA matches. On the other hand, James’s will mentions a son James but not a son James David—it seems likely that James senior would have mentioned James David if James David was his son.  

    James Butters (abt 1779-1838)

    James Butters (59) of 3 Princes Court, Whitcomb Street, died on 25 June 1838 of consumption. The informant was [the mark of] Elizabeth Pullen, 3 Princes Court, present at the death.

    Whitcomb street runs north from Pall Mall, running just southwest of the southwest corner of Leicester Square. In 1816 and up until 1821, Thomas Butters (1790-1844) and his partner Samuel Candler were running the grocery firm of Candler and Butters in Princes Street, Leicester Square.

    I haven’t been able to track down the exact location of Princes Street (Leicester Square) and Princes Court (Whitcombs Street), but they were presumably close to each other. Perhaps their proximity is another clue that Thomas Butters was a brother of James Butters (1779-1838).

    Elizabeth Pullen

    The person who registered the death of James Butters (1779-1838) was Elizabeth Pullin [or Pullen] of Princes Court. The 1841 census shows Elizabeth Pullen (55) and William Pullin (60, bootmaker) in Princes Court. Where they related to James Butters?

    The 1851 and 1861 censuses say William was born in Petworth (Sussex) in 1779 and the 1851 census says Elizabeth was born in Amberston (Derbyshire—possibly Ambaston or Embaston) in 1780. Possible marriages are to Elizabeth Spencer in St Ann (Soho) in 1805 and Elizabeth Wright in St Martin on the Fields (1827).

    I don’t know of any connection between James Butters and William or Elizabeth Pullin.  

    James Butters (1785-1837), who married Rebecca Hammersley in 1820

    James Butters (1785-1837) married Rebecca Hammersley in 1820 at St Martin in the Fields (central London).

    The parish register of marriages and banns doesn’t record whether James and Rebecca were single or widowed. If James was widowed, perhaps he was the same man whose son James David Butters (son of Ann) was baptised in Piccadilly in 1814.

    The following facts make it plausible that James Butters (1785-1837) could have been James David Butters’s father:

    • his age: he would have been about 29 when James David Butters was baptised;
    • his birth date: according to the death records, he was born in 1785, which means he could be James and Mary Butter’s son baptised in that year.

    On the other hand, one important fact makes it seem unlikely that James Butters (1785-1837) was James David Butters’s father. Rebecca Hammersley and a James Butters had a short-lived son James Hammersley Butters in 1812, 8 years before their marriage.

    If this was the same couple, it seems unlikely that the same James Butters had a son (James David Butters) with another woman (Ann) in 1814—2 years after the birth of James Hammersley Butters and 8 years before James’s marriage to Rebecca.  https://birdsofcressingham.wordpress.com/2021/08/24/will-of-james-butters-brazier-1821/

    James Butters, who married Ann Thomas in 1797 

    James and Ann Butters might be James Butters (a widower of St Mary-le-Bone) and Ann Thomas who married at Christ Church, Southwark on 12 February 1797 by licence. I don’t know where Ann was living and I know nothing about James’s 1st wife.

    The following facts contradict the idea that James and Ann Butters were the couple who married in 1797:

    • James David Butters wasn’t baptised until 17 years after that marriage and I have found no other child of James and Ann Butters. It seems unlikely that they had no children in 17 years. Of course, they could have had earlier children who died young, but it seems reasonable to assume that I would have come across some record of at least one earlier child if they existed.
    • Thomas Butters’ brother James was baptised in 1785. He would have been about 29 in 1814, so he could be the father of James David Butters. But it is unlikely that he married Ann Thomas in 1797, when he would have been about 12.

    James Butters, who married Elizabeth Cordell

    A James Butters married Elizabeth Cordell at St Andrew Holborn on 29 March 1807. Perhaps he was one or more of the following people:

    Conclusions

    In the light of the information discussed above:

    • it seems likely that Thomas Butters (1790-1844) was a son of James Butters (died 1821) a brazier of Marylebone and his wife Mary. It seems plausible that this couple were James Butter [sic] and Mary Jones who married in Piccadilly in 1779.
    • it seems likely that Thomas Butters (1790-1844) was related to my 3x great grandfather James David Butters (abt 1814-1855).
    • it seems likely that James David Butters (abt 1814-1855) was the son of James Butters (a chimney improver) and Ann Butters, baptised in Piccadilly in 1814. It is plausible that James Butters (the chimney improver) was the brother of Thomas Butters (1790-1844), James Butters (baptised in Southwark in 1785).
    • James Butters (the chimney improver) may be James Butters (abt 1779-1838) who died in Princes Court, Whitcomb Street in 1838.
    • it seems unlikely that James Butters (the chimney improver) was the James Butters (1785-1837) who married Rebecca Hammersley in 1820 and who seems to have had a short-lived son (James Hammersley Butters) with her in 1812.
    • it seems highly unlikely that the James Butters (widower of St Mary-le-Bone) who married Ann Thomas in Southwark in 1797 was any of the following people:
      (a) the son (baptised in 1785) of James Butters and Mary Jones;
      (b) James Butters (1785-1837); or
      (c) James Butters (the chimney improver) whose wife Ann was the mother of James David Butters (baptised in 1814).
    • James Butters who married Elizabeth Cordell in Holborn 1807 could have been the same person as any of the other men discussed in this post, but I know nothing else about James and Elizabeth.
    • perhaps James Butters (the chimney improver) was not any of the other people discussed in this post. I have not (yet) found any records of any other James Butters living in London around 1814.

    Overall, the most likely hypothesis seems to be that:

    • my 3 x great grandfather James David Butters (abt 1814-1855) was baptised in Picadilly in 1814, son of James Butters (chimney improver) and Ann.
    • James Butters (chimney improver) was a son of James Butters and Mary Jones, and brother of Thomas Butters (1790-1837). He may be the 59-year-old man who died in Princes Court, Whitcomb Street in 1838.

    Follow up

    I would like to find some evidence that helps answer the following questions:

    • were any other boys called James David Butters born in London around 1814?
    • were any men called James Butters (apart from the men discussed in those post) in London around 1814?
    • what was the maiden name of Ann (mother of James David Butters), when and where did she marry James Butters (the chimney improver) and where and when was she born?
    • where did James and Ann Butters live before and after 1814, and did they have any other children?
    • who was the James Butters (59) who died in Princes Court, Whitcomb Street in 1838?
    • what happened to James Butters and Ann Thomas after their marriage in 1797?
    • who was the James Butters who married Elizabeth Cordell in 1807 and what happened to them after their marriage?
    • the Poor Law Committee for St James Piccadilly ordered 7 shillings to be paid to James Butters between 14 and 28 November 1821. Who was he?

    It would also be helpful to get more DNA evidence from:
    – further people getting their DNA tested; and/or
    – people uploading their Ancestry DNA test results to Gedcom, to show the precise location of the DNA matches (which chromosome(s) and which places on the chromosome(s)). Uploads to Gedcom are free.

    Even better information is possible by using My Heritage (rather than Gedcom). Unfortunately, My Heritage recently stopped accepting uploads from Ancestry, so the only way to make use of My Heritage is now to buy a test from them.

    Who were James and Ann Butters?

    My 3 x great grandfather James David Butters was born around 1815 and died in 1855. James may have been James David Butters, who was baptised on 10 October 1814 at St James Piccadilly (central London). The parents were James (chimney improver) and Ann Butters, living in Market Row. Zinc worker who died young – Birds of Cressingham https://birdsofcressingham.wordpress.com/2020/09/14/zinc-worker-who-died-young/

    The date, the use of the same name and the uncommon use of a (not particularly common) middle name suggest this could be the same person. But on the other hand, although not too far away, this is not the same parish as where he lived later.

    If may ancestor was the James David Butters wo was baptised on 10 October 14,

    Who were James and Ann?

    I have found one record of a James Butters marrying an Ann around the right time for this to be the couple who had son James David baptised in 1814. James Butters of St Mary-le-Bone (a widower) married Ann Thomas at Christ Church, Southwark on 12 February 1797 by licence. The marriage register is damaged and so some information is lost or illegible:

    • Ann Thomas’s marital status and parish of residence;
    • name of the church official conducting the ceremony; and
    • whether James and Ann signed with their names or just with a mark. Their first names and part of their surnames are visible, but I can’t quite decide whether the writing differs enough to show whether the signatures were written by the person who wrote the rest of the entry.

    The witnesses were Ann Danck [?] [or Ann Banch?] and Joseph Barrett, who both signed with their names.

    There is a squiggle between James and Butters in the first line. It isn’t clear whether that is meant to be a middle initial, just a flourish at the start of the capital B or is just some mark on the paper.  

    New information

    The interesting new information is that James was a widow. I haven’t yet found a suggestion for who his 1st wife could have been.

    Conclusions

    Paddington / Lisson Grove / Marylebone  are not that far from where my 3 x great grandfather James David Butters lived later. That fact, and the middle name and baptism date make it seem reasonably likely that my 3 x great grandfather was the same James David Butters who was baptised on 10 October 1814 at St James Piccadilly, to James and Ann Butters.

    I have found only one marriage of a James Butters and an Ann: in Southwark in 1797 between James Butters (widow) and Ann Thomas (marital status unknown). That could be the right couple, but I have found no more evidence to confirm (or disprove) this idea.

    I still don’t know whether James Butters (father of James David Butters, baptised 1814) was any of the following people:

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